Question and Answer Session Hosts:

• Joshua Barndt, Parkdale Neighbourhood Land Trust
• Nat Pace, Canadian Network of Community Land Trusts
• Dominique Jones, County Foundation, facilitator

Q. How did you get involved in Community Land Trusts?

• Nat:I’ve been an admirer for a long time. I was working in the affordable housing sector where non-mainstream approaches were lacking and where housing would stay affordable long-term For example, in the city 80% of market rent for 20 years is considered affordable housing. The providers do not have to keep it affordable.
• Joshua: I grew up in Parkdale and joined as a volunteer.

Q. What do you recommend – Buying or building?

• Joshua: Dependent on the situation and what you are trying to accomplish. For example, Parkdale has lots of rental stock but it’s not affordable. In Toronto it costs half the price to purchase vs building and it’s faster and already there. It’s a quicker option. The disadvantage is it is not adding to supply. A question to ask would be what are the existing rental market needs and ask if you can build it better. There is also a lack of density in small towns. How do you introduce more density? How can people live closer to the services they need?

Q. One and Done – With Community Land Trusts is it best to start with one property and then grow it?

• Nat: depends where the opportunity is. For example, group of friends bought a parcel of land in Muskoka. Alo open to increasing opportunities. There are examples of small groups building it for themselves and groups building out for long term affordability. Both have been done.
• Joshua: CLT’s should be expansionists. Should assess community needs every 5 years. History of CLTs in the 80s and 90s – with government funding they built and these groups had lots of success For example, creation of co-op housing. By 1993 programs ended and disinvestment followed. These programs haven’t grown since. It’s important to produce without government involvement as well. For example, Now that mortgages are paid off these programs will start to build new units. CLTs go through periods of growth and they are intended to be long term and multi-generational.

Q. What innovative models are there for increased investment dollars? For example, community bonds?

• Nat: community bonds work. Different ways to grow equity. Private donations and foundations for instance, federal programs are not so much for equity but organizational development.
• Joshua: every project needs 40-60% in equity which is a lot. Through community donations, and residents as well as surplus revenue. 40-60% of debt needs to be paid back through CMHC. Banks, in particular credit unions, have been helpful. Check into Tapestry Capital which is an organization focusing on community bonds.

Q. Residential vs mixed use – what is the benefit?

• Joshua: With residential use it is easy to identify that the work is charitable work. Income could make it ineligible. Lots of groups want to do mixed but it creates some complexity.
• Nat: It depends on what your community needs are. There are implications for pursuing charitable status. CMHC wants to see CLTs as an affordable housing solution. Federal funding for CLT focuses on housing.

Q. For homes that are purchased from CLT – How does the individual get a mortgage when they do not own the land? And a bank can’t set up a lean on the property?

• Joshua: When CLT creates a house and sells there are deed restrictions which impact the future sale. Home value is less and the sale takes place in a particular way. For example, see ArtScape in Toronto. For example, owner has a stake in ownership and sells. Credit unions are engaged in this in the U.S. Legislation defines this so lenders can lend to CLT – In Canada we do not have similar legislation yet.

Q. Are there considerations for progressive home ownership? For example, subsidized program to own?

• Joshua: CLT in U.S. have rent to own model. Not a lot of CLTs so far into their journey yet in Canada. CLT will have a stake For example, 30% ownership while the owner has 70% stake. A new purchaser would buy for 70% of value and CLT would maintain a 30% stake in the property. Model is successful. In Toronto condominiums rise in price so quickly and the affordable home ownership model is hard.
• Nat: it’s not affordable and hard to make work with exploding real estate values. It will not get people in low incomes into the housing market but rather people with moderate incomes. Groups in the US have figured it out and in Canada we are just starting.

Q. How does a trustee organization work – For example, secondary benefits and synergies between affordable housing and people that are employed.

• Joshua: In Parkdale the trustee organization does the contracting out. Housing partners employ cleaners, etc. Contracting there is an opportunity to see larger opportunities. For example, community benefit agreements.

Q. What about landowners who want to donate?

• Joshua: needs to be navigated in therm of their wants and needs vs community needs
• Nat: People are wanting to convert their own homes into a CLT. Lots of energy to make it happen. Currently operating in a gray area.